Rework: Ranger [VOID]

thwright · October 3, 2015, 4:46pm

Compared to other classes, the Ranger was lackluster in design and fell behind other characters later into the game (roughly post level 8). This is a compilation of various suggestions from across the Internet (primarily: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442703-The-%28condensed%29-variant-Ranger), Wizards of the Coast Unearthed Arcana articles, other research, and my own balancing thoughts.

Important Notes About Changes:NOTE: All primary statistics remain the same, level progression and spell list modified.

The ability to have an animal companion is now a 1st level Ranger Spell similar to Find Familiar and Find Steed. Find Animal Companion is now a spell.
The Swift Quiver spell no longer requires concentration. In addition, the Ranger can make two extra melee attacks for the duration instead of ranged attacks if he so chooses.

Enemy's Bane, Natural Explorer
Fighting Style, Hunter's Instincts, Spellcasting
Archetype feature, Primeval Awareness
Ability Score Improvement
Extra Attack
Hide in Plain Sight, Extra Favored Enemy, Extra Favored Terrain
Archetype feature
Ability Score Improvement, Land's Stride
-
Foe Slayer, Improved Hide in Plain Sight, Vanish, Extra Favored Terrain
Archetype feature
Ability Score Improvement
-
Extra Favored Enemy
Archetype feature
Ability Score Improvement
-
Feral Senses
Ability Score Improvement
Ambuscade

Ranger Archetypes and Their Abilities

Arcane Woodsman

3: Expanded Spell List. Woodland Mysticism.
7: War Magic.
11: Ward.
15: Magic Draw.

Beast Master

3: Great Beast.
7: Poultices.
11: Extra Companion. Alpha Beast.
15: Primal Beast.

Hunter

3: Hunter's Prey.
7: Defensive Tactics. Combat Superiority.
11: Multiattack.
15: Superior Hunter's Defense.

Scout

3: Skirmish. Expertise.
7: Fast Movement. Surveyor.
11: Stalker.
15: Skirmisher's Stealth.

Enemy’s Bane
You gain the Player’s Handbook qualities of Favored Enemy (Advantage on Wisdom (Survival) and Intelligence checks related to remembering information about foes) against all foes. You choose one type of enemy as per normal. You have an increased critical threat range against that type of creature and deal +1d6 bonus damage to that type of creature. You also know its language. You can choose an additional Favored Enemy at level 6 and again at level 14.

Natural Explorer
You are particularly familiar with one type of natural environment and are adept at traveling and surviving in such regions. Choose one type of favored terrain: arctic, coast, desert, forest, grassland, mountain, swamp, or the Underdark. When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to your favored terrain, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in. While traveling for an hour or more in your favored terrain, you gain the following benefits:

Difficult terrain doesn't slow your group's travel.
Your group can't become lost except by magical means.
Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.

In addition, you can treat any terrain as a favored terrain when you have traveled in that particular terrain for at least one week. You lose these benefits when you have left that terrain for one week. You choose additional favored terrain types at level 6 and level 10.

Fighting Style
As normal per the Player’s Handbook.

Hunter’s Instincts

[quote url="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442703-The-%28condensed%29-variant-Ranger"]At 2nd level, your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make with any two of the following skills: Investigation, Nature, Perception, Stealth, and Survival. At 10th level, you can choose another skill proficiency to gain this benefit.[/quote]

as per: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442703-The-%28condensed%29-variant-Ranger

Spellcasting
As per the Player’s Handbook with the given noted spell list changes above.

Archetype
You may select an Archetype from the following list: Arcane Woodsman, Beast Master, Hunter, Scout

Primeval Awareness
As per Player’s Handbook, except you are aware if your Favored Enemies from Enemy’s Bane are in the area as well.

Extra Attack
As per Player’s Handbook

Hide in Plain Sight
As per Player’s Handbook, except +5 bonus.

Land’s Stride
As per Player’s Handbook.

Foe Slayer
As per Player’s Handbook, but much sooner.

Improved Hide in Plain Sight
As before, except bonus is now +10.

Vanish
As per Player’s Handbook.

Feral Senses
As per Player’s Handbook.

Ambuscade

[quote]Starting at 20th level, when you roll initiative, you gain a special “surprise round” that takes place before other creatures can act. On this round, you may move up to your normal speed, and take either the Attack or Hide action. You may take a bonus action, but can't use the Cast a Spell, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Ready, Search, or Use an Object actions. If more than one creature in an encounter has this feature, they all act first in order of initiative, then the regular initiative order begins. If you would normally be surprised at the start of an encounter, you are not surprised-but you do not gain this extra 'surprise round.'[/quote]

as per: http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/DX_0907_UA_RangerOptions.pdf, except gained at level 20 as capstone.

Arcane Woodsman

3: Expanded Spell List. Woodland Mysticism.
7: War Magic.
11: Ward.
15: Magic Draw.

Expanded Spell List
You add the spells listed below to the list of available spells you can learn. In addition, you learn two cantrips from the Wizard’s spell list.

1: Grease, Disguise Self, Magic Missile
2: Magic Weapon, Melf’s Acid Arrow, Invisibility
3: Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Fireball
4: Dimension Door, Ice Storm
5: Cone of Cold, Wall of Fire

Woodland Mysticism
You gain proficiency in the Arcana skill.

War Magic
Whenever you cast a cantrip, you can make a weapon attack as a bonus action.

Ward
You gain resistance to one of the following energy types (Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Thunder).
In addition, you can select up to two targets within 30t of yourself to ward by expending a spell slot. You ward that target against your chosen energy type for 1 minute per spell level. You must finish a short rest to use this ability again.

Magic Draw
When under the effects of your Swift Quiver abilities, you can switch between your weapons seamlessly. The time it takes you to switch between a pair of swords, a great two-handed sword, or a bow, or any other weapon (including a shield), is very quick. You can freely switch between weapons you have between attacks for the duration of your Swift Quiver ability.

Beast Master

3: Great Beast.
7: Poultices.
11: Extra Companion. Alpha Beast.
15: Primal Beast.

Great Beast
Your animal companion summoned through Find Animal Companion gains half your proficiency bonus to its AC, attack rolls, and skills it is proficient in. While travelling in a terrain you are familiar with through your Natural Explorer ability with only your Animal Companion, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.

Poultices
As normal per: https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes

[quote]At 3rd level, you can create special herbal poultices that have healing power comparable to some potions. You can spend 1 hour gathering herbs and preparing herbal poultices using treated bandages to create a number of such poultices equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). You can carry a number of poultices at one time equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). The poultices you create cannot be applied by anyone but you. After 24 hours, any poultices that you have not used lose their potency.

If you spend 1 minute applying one of your poultices to a wounded humanoid creature, thereby expending its use, that creature regains 1d6 hit points. This amount increases to 2d6 at level 5, 3d6 at level 7, 4d6 at level 9, and 5d6 at level 11. ... At level 11, additionally, you can use one of your poultices to cure one poison effect on the creature you are applying it to, in addition to restoring hit points.[/quote]

Extra Companion
When you cast the Find Animal Companion spell, you gain the service of an additional animal companion. This companion must be small or smaller in size. It gains no benefits for using a higher level spell slot. It’s maximum challenge rating is 1/8.

Alpha Beast
Your primary Animal Companion gains your full proficiency bonus to its AC, attack rolls, and skills it is proficient in.

Primal Beast
When casting your Find Animal Companion spell, using a higher level slot is doubled when determining bonus HD. A 2nd level slot counts as a 3rd level slot, a 3rd level slot counts as a 5th. A 4th level slot counts as a 7th. A 5th level slot counts as a 9th. Your Animal Companion’s max bonus HD is reflective of these higher level slots.

Hunter

3: Hunter’s Prey.
7: Defensive Tactics. Combat Superiority.
11: Multiattack. Greater Bane.
15: Superior Hunter’s Defense.

Hunter’s Prey
As per the Player’s Handbook, except pick 2.

Defensive Tactics
As per the Player’s Handbook, except pick 2.

Combat Superiority
You learn two maneuvers available to the Battle Master Fighter. You have two superiority dice, which refresh on a short or long rest. Your dice are 1d8s. You can retrain these Maneuvers each night.

Multiattack
As per the Player’s Handbook, except gain both.

Greater Bane
Your Favored Enemies take an additional 2d6 damage and you score critical hits against them on a roll of 18 to 20.

Superior Hunter’s Defense
As per the Player’s Handbook, except pick 2.

Scout

3: Skirmish. Expertise.
7: Fast Movement. Surveyor.
11: Stalker.
15: Skirmisher’s Stealth

Skirmish
You can use dash and disengage as a bonus action. If you use an dash or disengage as an action or a bonus action, your weapon attacks deal an extra 1d6 damage for that turn.
You lose this benefit if wearing heavy armor, or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
At level 7, when you use the dash action, you gain +1 bonus to Armor Class until the start of your next turn.
At level 11, the damage of Skirmish increases to 2d6. In addition, as long as you move at least 10ft, your attacks deal 1d6 bonus damage.
At level 15, when you dash, you gain a +1 bonus to all Saves that turn.

Expertise
You gain expertise in any skill or tool you are proficient in.

Fast Movement
Your base land speed increases by 10 feet. You lose this benefit if wearing heavy armor, or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

Surveyor
You gain the benefits of Natural Explorer for a terrain you have just entered after spending one day, rather than one week, in its environment.

Stalker

[quote]At 11th level, you can move up to half your speed while Hiding in Plain Sight, but cannot take any other actions without revealing yourself. You must remain pressed against the flat surface you started on.[/quote]

as per: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442703-The-%28condensed%29-variant-Ranger

Skirmisher’s Stealth

[quote]Beginning at 15th level, you combine speed and stealth in combat to make yourself hard to pin down. You are difficult to detect even if you attack or otherwise take actions that would normally reveal your presence. At the start of your turn, pick a creature you are hidden from. You remain hidden from that creature during your turn, regardless of your actions or the actions of other creatures. As a bonus action at the end of your turn, you can make a Dexterity (Stealth) check to hide a gain if you fulfill the conditions needed to hide. Otherwise, creatures are aware of you at the end of your turn.[/quote]

as per http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/DX_0907_UA_RangerOptions.pdf.

thwright · September 29, 2016, 10:04am

With the release of the WotC Ranger, Revised, this rework has been shelved.

lordnewb · November 7, 2016, 2:37am

Feedback:
Natural Explorer – Retain favored terrains, as the original function of the class feature does, in addition to the week-long adjustment to non-favored terrains.

Skirmish – The disengage function should be reworded. Disengage is a turn action, correct? Where does one find the ability to attack that same turn? Unless the bonus action can be taken before other actions, rather than being the last action of a turn?

Arcane Woodsman – Really strong in this iteration. Increasing the spells known puts them pretty close to the Sorcerer, should be reverted. The Arcane Woodsman should also at least spend a spell slot for the energy resistance or granting it to others, duration scaling with the spell slot used. (1 hour/level spell slot for the caster, 1 minute/level spell slot for allied targets)

Beast Master – Seems fine

Hunter – Seems fine

Scout – I think the Scout could get some extra benefit out of Natural Explorer and Primeval Awareness. Perhaps like gaining the benefits of Natural Explorer instantly upon entering the favored terrain (rather than after an hour of traveling in it) and knowing the location and number of Favored Enemies when using Primeval Awareness.
[October 19, 2015 at 7:14 pm]

thwright · November 7, 2016, 2:38am

Feedback:
1.) Natural Explorer – Retain favored terrains, as the original function of the class feature does, in addition to the week-long adjustment to non-favored terrains. @lordnewb

2.) Skirmish – The disengage function should be reworded. Disengage is a turn action, correct? Where does one find the ability to attack that same turn? Unless the bonus action can be taken before other actions, rather than being the last action of a turn?

3.) Arcane Woodsman – Really strong in this iteration. Increasing the spells known puts them pretty close to the Sorcerer, should be reverted. The Arcane Woodsman should also at least spend a spell slot for the energy resistance or granting it to others, duration scaling with the spell slot used. (1 hour/level spell slot for the caster, 1 minute/level spell slot for allied targets)

4.) Beast Master – Seems fine

5.) Hunter – Seems fine

6.) Scout – I think the Scout could get some extra benefit out of Natural Explorer and Primeval Awareness. Perhaps like gaining the benefits of Natural Explorer instantly upon entering the favored terrain (rather than after an hour of traveling in it) and knowing the location and number of Favored Enemies when using Primeval Awareness.

1.) I agree.

2.) Bonus Actions can be taken at any point. Just as you can spread your attack action over the course of a move action. Bonus Actions do not have to come at the end.

3.) Arcane Woodsman adds spells to the spell list, not permanent spells known. It is an expanded spell list. I like the idea of spending a spell slot for the bonus duration. Good thinking. What about the other abilities? The Ranger’s spellcasting is also kept in line because it is only a half caster (max slot of 5, no cantrips normally).

4.) I think the breaking up of the animal companion’s proficiency bonus helps to keep it in control. What are you thoughts on Poultices? I think it may be too strong.

5.) I think the change just helps make the Hunter stay competitive and feel more rewarding.

6.) I think a general good change to Primeval Awareness for all Rangers would be to be able to detect their favored enemies. I like the idea of them having a faster acquisition of favored terrains. I think it is important that Primeval does not reveal number/location. Having their presence in mind could give advantage to say, survival checks for tracking, which could reveal such information. I think it’s important to not stack those abilities all into one ability/archetype. The Scout good gain the benefits after a day–an hour might be too drastic.

Thoughts about the change to Swift Quiver?
[October 19, 2015 at 8:25 pm]

lordnewb · November 7, 2016, 2:38am

3.) You have it listed that the Arcane Woodsman gains two more maximum spells known.

4.) I think the Poultices should have a daily creation limit equal to 2 per Wis. mod, with a carrying limit equal to 1 per Wis. mod. And then cap the healing amount to 5d6 @ Level 10 Ranger.

6.) Yeah let’s not make Primeval Awareness reveal location and number. For the Scout, I think it would be good if Natural Explorer gave them instant benefits when they enter favored terrain (as opposed to after one hour), and to gain the benefits in a non-favored terrain after 1-2(?) days of travel (not retained after leaving the terrain).

I’m really torn over Swift Quiver, because the original spell dealt with only ammunition. My inclination is that Lesser SQ should only give +1 bonus ranged (ammunition-based) attack, and then Greater SQ should give +2 bonus ranged (ammunition-based) attack or +1 bonus melee attack.
[October 19, 2015 at 8:52 pm]

thwright · November 7, 2016, 2:39am

3.) You have it listed that the Arcane Woodsman gains two more maximum spells known.Lordnewb

4.) I think the Poultices should have a daily creation limit equal to 2 per Wis. mod, with a carrying limit equal to 1 per Wis. mod. And then cap the healing amount to 5d6 @ Level 10 Ranger.

6.) Yeah let’s not make Primeval Awareness reveal location and number. For the Scout, I think it would be good if Natural Explorer gave them instant benefits when they enter favored terrain (as opposed to after one hour), and to gain the benefits in a non-favored terrain after 1-2(?) days of travel (not retained after leaving the terrain).

I’m really torn over Swift Quiver, because the original spell dealt with only ammunition. My inclination is that Lesser SQ should only give +1 bonus ranged (ammunition-based) attack, and then Greater SQ should give +2 bonus ranged (ammunition-based) attack or +1 bonus melee attack.

4.) Sounds like a good change. Creation limit probably should be lowered too since they have spell support to back them up, as well as a stronger pet(s).

6.) Hmm… Let’s toy with some ideas to work it out. The Scout perhaps could get some kind of benefit to Perception checks over the normal benefits? So rather than time, a benefit/upgrade to the ability itself. Both might be too much, but I think we could give the Scout something to modify Natural Explorer. I will need to review the original draft more closely.

Swift Quiver wasn’t just infinite ammunition; it gave two bonus attacks on a bonus action with a ranged weapon. It could be abused since Bard’s got 5th level spell slots (at level 9) sooner than Rangers and could use their class ability to learn any spell to gain the spell and become better attackers than any other class at almost all times. I removed it because of that abuse.
I also wanted it to be good for melee Rangers as well–if the Ranger was ranged only as the Paladin is melee only (w/o house ruling), then it would make sense for that limit, but the base class is for both styles of fighting.
As it stands, Swift Quiver does grant (lesser) +1 Ranged attack and (greater) +2 Ranged (I don’t specify ammunition because of thrown weapon specialists); I want it to be useful for melee as well.
One of the things other classes don’t have is the ability to strike multiple times with an off-hand. What if for melee Rangers, LSQ gave +1 MH Melee and GSQ gave +1 MH Melee and +1 OH Melee? I foresee two thought paths from this idea:

This would encourage Rangers to be dual wielders, something no other class really does, but…
An issue with this is an unnecessary penalty on different play styles (Single Weapon, 2H, S&B). The Paladin may be only good for melee (without house ruling), but the Ranger was not set-up for ranged-only play in the first place. Certain spells may have been ranged oriented (Conjure Volley, Barrage, Swift Quiver), but the class wasn’t pure ranged. It is, I believe, the only class besides the Fighter to get the 2 weapon fighting style.
Perhaps Swift Quiver could give different benefits for melee Rangers than bonus attacks? Say increased speed, receiving the benefit of disengage for the duration, being able to make special attacks as bonus actions (disarm, trip, sunder, shove, grapple), or something. I don’t see an issue with bonus attacks for this feature. It is a limited duration and only lasts for 1 minute (roughly 1 encounter).
[October 19, 2015 at 9:38 pm]

lordnewb · November 7, 2016, 2:39am

I’m still not sure about Swift Quiver. Making it a class feature that can apply to melee attacks as well just comes across as a gimmicky Extra Attack(s) class feature for the Ranger, bringing them up to Fighter-level Extra Attacks for a limited time per long rest. Not sure what to do with it right now though.
[October 19, 2015 at 9:54 pm]

thwright · November 7, 2016, 2:39am

I’m still not sure about Swift Quiver. Making it a class feature that can apply to melee attacks as well just comes across as a gimmicky Extra Attack(s) class feature for the Ranger, bringing them up to Fighter-level Extra Attacks for a limited time per long rest. Not sure what to do with it right now though.Lordnewb

Barbarians get something similar when raging. It is only one extra attack, but they can rage a lot. I agree, it is sort of like Action Surge from the Fighter, only better.
[October 19, 2015 at 9:58 pm]

lordnewb · November 7, 2016, 2:39am

What if Swift Quiver provided the bonus on only the first turn of combat?

LSQ would give you 2 bonus attacks on the first turn of combat, given that you do not move. Or alternatively, you can use the Volley action as the Hunter does or make an extra melee attack on the first turn of combat?

GSQ would give you 2 bonus attacks on the first turn of combat, and you can move. Or as the above alternative, use the Volley action twice or make two extra melee attacks on the first turn of combat?
[October 20, 2015 at 11:07 am]

thwright · November 7, 2016, 2:40am

What if Swift Quiver provided the bonus on only the first turn of combat? @lordnewb

LSQ would give you 2 bonus attacks on the first turn of combat, given that you do not move. Or alternatively, you can use the Volley action as the Hunter does or make an extra melee attack on the first turn of combat?

GSQ would give you 2 bonus attacks on the first turn of combat, and you can move. Or as the above alternative, use the Volley action twice or make two extra melee attacks on the first turn of combat?

Hmm… Swift Quiver as per Player’s Handbook:

You transmute your quiver so it produces an endless supply of nonmagical ammunition, which seems to leap into your hand when you reach for it.
On each of your turns until the spell ends, you can use a bonus action to make two attacks with a weapon that uses ammunition from the quiver. Each time you make such a ranged attack, your quiver magically replaces the piece of ammunition you used with a similar piece of nonmagical ammunition. Any pieces of ammunition created by this spell disintegrate when the spell ends. If the quiver leaves your possession, the spell ends. -Player’sHandbook

So what I am going for is replacing a 5th level spell that Rangers likely would have used once or twice a day come higher level play. This spell was concentration based for up to 1 minute, meaning it could have been interrupted in the process.

The only thing is is that this also opens up spell slots for the Ranger to use other spells, meaning they are effectively gaining other benefits from the ability. That’s why I had reduced it to the state it is in currently.

By breaking the ability up into two different points but not granting the full benefit of the spell, I felt the purpose in such an ability was to be a simple combat buff.

What if its benefit was to be able to treat any specific foe as your favored enemy, netting you the increased crit range and damage? This could last for 1 minute and we could make it once/twice per short rest. We could change the ability to Swift Death or some other name. This would give the Hunter a special boost in that they have extra bonuses against Favored Enemies. So rather than more attacks, they are gaining more powerful attacks. But Foe Slayer already grants Favored Enemy bonuses. This would still be a replacement Swift Quiver.
[October 20, 2015 at 7:03 pm]

lordnewb · November 7, 2016, 2:40am

I like that idea better. But it would have to be where you designate a target and they are considered a Favored Enemy until they are either dead or after 1 minute has elapsed, and you can’t change the target of this. Maybe let the number of times/day be equal to Wis. mod.?
[October 20, 2015 at 8:43 pm]

thwright · November 7, 2016, 2:41am

Consider this spell:

[attachment=0:3yjldy82] HuntersMark.jpg [/attachment:3yjldy82]

This is one of the bread and butter abilities of the Ranger. Personally, I think this should have been a base ability and not pushed into a spell (same with Swift Quiver). This could have been the Ranger’s version of Divine Smite. This is where I got the ideas to modify the base Ranger’s Favored Enemy ability. I like the idea of the Ranger being able to use its spell slots to fuel some of its more potent abilities. I don’t like that this ability, as well as Swift Quiver, are Concentration-based and thus mutually exclusive. If the Ranger could use this ability without the need for Concentration, that would help it drastically.

I say let’s change this spell to be Concentration-less. It still uses a resource that way, but doesn’t ram the Ranger into using specific spells just to stay competent.

In terms of Swift Quiver and its new form… I don’t necessarily think an ability that gives temporary bonus attacks is much of a problem. Swift Quiver is how the Ranger (besides the Hunter’s abilities) got extra attacks beyond two to be in line with the Barbarian and the non-level 20 Fighter. The Paladin has Improved/Divine Smite for its third attack. Monk’s have their Fury of Blows and such. What if we made Swift Quiver grant, for a bonus action (big cost), 1 extra attack with any weapon. Then, we give it some other benefit. What about this change?

I don’t like that the Bard can steal those. Perhaps, rather than reworking the Ranger’s Spells/Abilities, we could put a QoL/Nerf on the Bard that only allows the Bard to choose spells from the Cleric/Druid/Wizard spell list. This would prevent them from taking Eldritch Blast, Swift Quiver, and other class specific spells for the Warlock, Paladin, and Ranger.

Asked a lot of stuff in this post/shared a lot of ideas. Give me some feedback to better understand how you think these abilities fall into play.
[October 21, 2015 at 9:58 am]

lordnewb · November 7, 2016, 2:41am

I think we need to keep in mind that the Ranger now has so much out-of-combat utility than the Barbarian and Fighter, whereas the utilities of the Barbarian and Fighter are combat-related. I don’t think the Ranger needs to be kept “on-par” with these other classes when it comes to combat.

That said, I think the Concentration for Hunter’s Quarry should remain. It’s like the Ranger is entering a special “hunting-mode” frame of mind, and I can imagine that a Ranger would use that when they are out in the wild, spending days tracking a particular foe. Without the concentration restraint, the spell becomes a straight buff with negligible cost that doesn’t regard an unfavorable casting environment, such as a busy city, merely marking the target initially and then being able to go about other business that does not pertain to tracking down the target, and then resuming the hunt, which doesn’t make too much sense to me.

I think as far as Swift Quiver goes, we can throw away the concentration requirement, give 2 bonus ranged attacks or 1 bonus melee attack (including off-hand when two-weapon fighting), and lasts up to 1 minute. 1 use per long rest. Perhaps LSQ could have a 30-second duration with 1 use per long rest, and GSQ has a 1 minute duration with uses per long rest equal to their Wis.Mod?

We also have to consider abuse cases. The Hunter who chooses to use Hunter’s Quarry and Swift Quiver at the same time, when attacking a quarry-marked Favored Enemy, can do 3 attacks with +3d6+Wis.Mod bonus damage each, equaling +9d6+3*Wis.Mod bonus damage per turn. It’s just a lot to consider.

In-sum:
1.) Hunter’s Quarry should remain concentration based to retain the thematic, keeping the spell’s casting level in mind as well.
2.) Swift Quiver could go without the concentration, gives 2 bonus ranged or 1 bonus melee attack, duration and usage per long rest upgrades?
3.) I’m in favor of restricting the Bard’s scope of Magical Secrets.
[October 21, 2015 at 12:05 pm]

thwright · November 7, 2016, 2:41am

We also have to consider abuse cases. The Hunter who chooses to use Hunter’s Quarry and Swift Quiver at the same time, when attacking a quarry-marked Favored Enemy, can do 3 attacks with +3d6+Wis.Mod bonus damage each, equaling +9d6+3*Wis.Mod bonus damage per turn. It’s just a lot to consider. @lordnewb

In-sum:
1.) Hunter’s Quarry should remain concentration based to retain the thematic, keeping the spell’s casting level in mind as well.
2.) Swift Quiver could go without the concentration, gives 2 bonus ranged or 1 bonus melee attack, duration and usage per long rest upgrades?
3.) I’m in favor of restricting the Bard’s scope of Magical Secrets.

I modified the OP to reflect that the Bard can no longer choose Ranger spells (there is a Bard QoL and Balances thread now) and that Swift Quiver is once again a spell but without Concentration and affects melee.

1.) Okay, we can keep Hunter’s Mark as is. They would be able to do currently:
4 x (Weapon + Modifier + Hunter’s Mark + Favored Enemy) damage with Swift Quiver running. They can use that spell once or twice a day by levels 17-20. I will change the spell on the OP to reflect it allows an extra melee attack.

2&3.) We will make the Swift Quiver a spell again, but allow it to affect melee attacks.
[October 21, 2015 at 3:32 pm]

lordnewb · November 7, 2016, 2:42am

Sounds good.

I’m also in favor of making Swift Quiver a level 4 spell instead of level 5.
[October 21, 2015 at 7:31 pm]

thwright · November 7, 2016, 2:42am

Sounds good. @lordnewb

I’m also in favor of making Swift Quiver a level 4 spell instead of level 5.

Now this I’d have to think about and look at other Ranger spells before I make a thought on that.
[October 22, 2015 at 6:01 pm]

thwright · November 14, 2016, 2:18pm